00:00:05:15 - 00:00:42:21
Unknown
Welcome to. It's Your Story to Tell. I'm Megan Babcock, and I am your host today. I'm so excited to be here with Brenda. Brenda has an amazing book that is just available in the last week on Amazon. One called Loud is Not a Language. And I'm really excited for us to talk about this today because we all know that this time that we're living in right now is really divisive.
00:00:42:23 - 00:01:15:17
Unknown
People are screaming their opinion and there's just not a lot of love. And if we want to see things move forward in our world in a positive direction, we have to learn to talk differently to each other and be more effective in our communication. Brenda is a speaker. She's a coach and author, and she's also a mediator, a mom and a grandma.
00:01:15:19 - 00:01:43:22
Unknown
And Brenda, I am just so happy to be here with you today. Thank you for taking time to share with It's your story to tell audience a little bit more about your book and how you even came to the realization of this effective communication structure that you talk about in your new book. Thank you so much, Megan. It is.
00:01:43:22 - 00:02:32:10
Unknown
It's really it's great to be here with you today. And everything you said is my heart will be able to find ways to cut through the divisiveness, to build bridges of respect and trust between people so that we can communicate around conflict that shouldn't be as big a deal as it is. So, yeah, just rewinding to how that even got to be a download in my brain back in 2016, it was just a week or two before for the Clinton Trump presidential elections, and my husband and I were at a social dinner with people that were like business acquaintances.
00:02:32:12 - 00:03:04:05
Unknown
Nobody really knew each other real well, and somebody at the table said, So what do you think about our next woman president? And there were just really strong Trump supporters and really strong Clinton supporters at the same table. And it was interesting to say the least, because what is so interesting is probably a very mild way of putting it.
00:03:04:07 - 00:03:38:18
Unknown
I've been at those tables. I know what it sounds like, but it was what was so Interreg s thing was there was loudness for some people in in volume. But more than that, the attitudes of the people were loud and you could feel it. You could just feel the, you know, there were accusation towards people that didn't even know each other well, assumptions of who people were without knowing their story.
00:03:38:20 - 00:03:45:16
Unknown
Anyway, I just I literally sat back in my chair and just watched like I was at a tennis match, just
00:03:45:16 - 00:03:50:01
Unknown
back and forth with the volleys of words that were going back and forth.
00:03:50:01 - 00:04:21:03
Unknown
Some people got up and left the table. It was very uncomfortable. I thought about it myself, but I'm watching people that were really intelligent, successful business people, completely unaware of how their passion for whichever side they were on was pushing the other person away instead of drawing them in like they really wanted them to. You know, they they wanted them to think like them and to either side.
00:04:21:03 - 00:04:44:14
Unknown
And the more passionate, the more loud their language, their attitude, their volume got, the more people away. So I'm sitting there watching this, thinking, Do I say anything? You know, Lord, you're saying anything. What do I hear? And this phrase loud is not a language, just fell into my head and I didn't think enough. It like fell into my head.
00:04:44:16 - 00:05:10:18
Unknown
And I thought, I haven't heard that before. What does that mean? As I'm thinking, what does that mean? I'm watching it play out in front of me and I'm seeing, well, that's what it means. Like loud does not communicate well. Loud pushes people away. It builds barriers. It does not invite conversation. So that's where it all came from.
00:05:10:18 - 00:05:46:13
Unknown
That's where it started. Seven years ahead. Yeah. So good in you know, during yes, things have been divisive and people have been very opinionated. But it has definitely escalated, I feel like, especially since that time period. And it just continues to get louder and worse. We're not getting anything done because we cannot even find any kind of middle grounds.
00:05:46:13 - 00:06:14:19
Unknown
And I love that you said, you know, we don't even listen to people's stories. We're not even hearing anything they say. We're thinking about how do I defend my position, what do I do and say next? And, you know, I am really passionate about finding issues or solutions to things, justice related, equity related, all of the things that are very important to all people.
00:06:14:21 - 00:06:48:12
Unknown
But if we cannot find a way to really be able to hear the heart behind people's positions, I don't know. That will really be able to be effective. And so I am really excited for you to just walk us through what would it look like if at that table when there are such a difference of opinions? What can we do to engage more effectively with people?
00:06:48:12 - 00:06:51:15
Unknown
We don't share the same opinions with?
00:06:51:15 - 00:07:25:08
Unknown
Well, this has been my journey in discovering all of this. I practiced it quite a bit in 2020. But first of all, I think that we are so focused on what the what we think the other person needs to understand that if we could just back up a minute and do a heart check, I call it pull up a chair like you're inviting somebody into a conversation when you say, Hey, pull up a chair, you're you're welcoming them.
00:07:25:10 - 00:08:07:22
Unknown
So this chair analogy, it's actually an acronym for a self-check. You know, do I have the courage to step into this conversation, first of all? And that doesn't mean a grab some courage, doesn't mean aggressive courage means knowing what's more important than the fear. So do I have the courage? Do I have the humility? That's the eight Recognizing that as passionate as I feel about whatever my perspective is, the other person feels just as passionate about theirs, and they have a story behind that for why?
00:08:07:22 - 00:08:38:18
Unknown
Just like I do, I mean, that's like a humble stance right there to just recognize that the ace for authenticity. I think a lot of times we think that when we listen to other people's perspectives, we have to agree with them. An understanding does not require agreement when we can be authentic with how with our conviction lens. But that humility with peace would be let me listen to theirs first.
00:08:38:20 - 00:09:11:20
Unknown
Let me give them the stage first. Let me hear what they're saying so that I can understand so that my responses may be more compassionate and constructive. And then I is integrity checking your motives. You know, I often think, you know, if if I'm going into a conversation and what my goal is, is to really get somebody to change their mind and think like me, would I trust that person if I knew that was their motivations for talking to me?
00:09:11:22 - 00:09:26:23
Unknown
Mean, would any of us trust anybody if we knew they want to talk to us? Because their only goal is they want us to think like they do? That didn't build a niche, right? Yeah. And then respect that respect. So courage, humility, authenticity, integrity, respect.
00:09:26:23 - 00:10:08:00
Unknown
I love the terror analogy. I think, you know, I'm a person who loves little ways to help me remember how to do things. So I really appreciate how I can visualize sitting at a table asking someone to pull up a chair and kind of running through this check. And I just wonder how many conversations might not have if I really checked in with myself to determine if I could show up in a way that was going to be honoring to that other person and have that capacity to really hear their story.
00:10:08:00 - 00:10:51:01
Unknown
Because as I have been growing in my communication, I have realized how powerful it is when I seek to understand their story. Because when I can start hearing their why behind why they are so have their opinion and it's so passionate and strong, it makes sense to me. So, for example, abortion is a very controversial topic, and while I am pro-life and I don't want to see anyone's life in dead, much less a baby inside their their momma.
00:10:51:01 - 00:11:32:14
Unknown
But when I have sat with women who have an abortion story and I listen to their reason why they're afraid of having abortion rights taken away or what they were going through when they had to make that decision. And the trauma that surrounds that, it really makes sense why they feel the way they do. Just as much as my beliefs in in how God created each individual, unique and new then before they were born.
00:11:32:14 - 00:12:08:15
Unknown
And so I hold the opinion that I do, and I've just been amazed as I sit and talk about their story and focus in on them and their their human side versus just battling out our two beliefs. Yeah, I totally with you there. And I think that what we tend to do is label people as just evil, you know, when they have an opinion that is different than ours with something that's as passionate as we feel about certain things.
00:12:08:17 - 00:12:38:09
Unknown
And when we sit and we listen and we realize, oh, they're human, they're not evil, they have had experiences that have affected them deeply, that have caused them to have the persuasion that they have. And it allows us to be able to have compassion toward one another, them toward us as well, when we're honest with our story. And it it helps us find a way to move forward.
00:12:38:11 - 00:13:07:21
Unknown
Yeah, and I think I'm a I'm a real big proponent of root cause, whether it's in physical, mental, emotional, spiritual. If we don't get to the root cause of something, we can attempt to apply all kinds of solutions, but we really won't have the impact that we're looking for. Or if we really can't get down to, well, it's not just about babies being aborted.
00:13:07:22 - 00:13:44:13
Unknown
This is about what are what are we doing in our our society to support when these things come into play that they're they're even a consideration. And then we can get we have these on as vulnerable conversations and we have a greater understanding of really what's going on behind that. We can make a better, more informed decision on how to actually support the problem at hand versus the opinion at hand.
00:13:44:14 - 00:14:19:01
Unknown
Yeah, So lately so how we've we've assessed can we actually even have this conversation? Mm hmm. What do we what do we do now? We're going to go. We've decided we can handle the conversation. We have the capacity. We're ready to really listen. What do we do next? What do we do next? So the cloud is not a language process where you actually apply some skills to the communicating after the heart check, after the pulling up a chair.
00:14:19:03 - 00:14:45:14
Unknown
It's another acronym. And really the Lord had me dis completely dismantle the word loud kind of is an act of let's just dismantle loud all together. But it's l0ud is the acronym for moving forward. And that first step is so counter intuitive. The L is to listen. And what we want to do is we want to talk. We want to share a perspective.
00:14:45:14 - 00:15:27:11
Unknown
We want people to understand us. But when we when we ask the questions of someone else, why do you feel the way you do? I'd love to understand your perspective more. And if we're genuine about that and we listen with a heart to understand not necessarily agree, but to understand, then what that does is it opens up the most beautiful possibilities that I have seen over and over and over for relationships to be built between people that he would never think would have a friendship.
00:15:27:16 - 00:16:01:13
Unknown
People who are on complete opposite ends of the political spectrum, religious spectrum, everything. But they've seen each other as humans who have lived different experiences that have caused them to believe different things about life. And there has been respect towards one another. And so in that there's this trust bridge that's built and it's like I, I can share with you how I feel, even though you may not and even though you may not agree with that.
00:16:01:15 - 00:16:32:06
Unknown
And so when we take the time to listen to somebody else, I have not yet had it not be reciprocal to where when I say, well, would you be willing to hear why I feel so strongly about the way I feel 100% of the time it has happened? It happened throughout COVID with the racial reconciliation of rather the racial stuff that that just exploded with the COVID stuff.
00:16:32:06 - 00:16:56:04
Unknown
The vaccines, not vaccines, masks, not masks, just all of that. And as well, as you said, interesting. I'm not sure what it had to do with 2020, but had more conversations around abortion at that issue than I have ever had. So, yeah, listening is key. That's the first step. The Oh, do you want me to share that? Yeah.
00:16:56:04 - 00:17:29:23
Unknown
Don't go. Oh, let's go through it. Right, right. So the AU is to own your own journey and the biases that come with it. So when we talk, when we take a look at our own journey and we're able to see that, oh, I believe really strongly about this because of that, and we can see the connection that experiences that we have had, we developed certain beliefs around that caused us to have really strong persuasions in certain areas.
00:17:30:01 - 00:17:56:23
Unknown
Then when somebody comes up against that, when that bias is triggered and we won't ever, you know, attack or run, whichever, I'm more than ever use it as a trigger to say, Oh, that's my bias, that's rising up right there. And I bet they have one to let me just keep listening. You know, that's really good when we can do that.
00:17:57:01 - 00:18:31:12
Unknown
So that's that's being honest with yourself to own your own journey and the biases that you as to understand the other person's journey and the biases that came with that. So it's just a deeper level of the listening. It's it's asking the questions that help you get clarity around where they are, where they stand, who they are. And then once we've done that and and it's been reciprocal and we've been able to share ours to, then we're ready for the D, which is to develop new ways to move forward.
00:18:31:12 - 00:18:55:05
Unknown
And we have it so backwards is what we want to do is we want to have a place to move forward without ever listening, you know? Right. That's so true. And just as you were, you're sharing that, you know, I was just reminded our greatest need, you know, is to be known, right? We want to be seen. We want to be heard.
00:18:55:07 - 00:19:52:00
Unknown
And as I was beginning in my coaching journey and working with clients and reflecting on my own journey, the Lord gave me three words that really kind of summarized what I felt like was so important to keep in mind on the journey. And the first one was Curiosity. And I think when we're questioning ourselves or when we're talking to others, being curious allows us to approach it from an investigative standpoint, which in some ways just helps even calm your nervous system because you're kind of taking yourself out of the middle of it and really looking for understanding and asking questions.
00:19:52:00 - 00:20:30:12
Unknown
So I really love that. That is such a key component of what you're sharing. The other part was community, because we were not intending it to do life alone, and in order to be a good member of community, you have to respond to others in a kind way. And in listening and all of that kind of sums up into the community part and then compassion and how we approach people and how we are just aware of what we bring into the conversation.
00:20:30:14 - 00:20:58:13
Unknown
And and so I really loved how you walked us through that and how if we're using that formula that is going to make us a more curious person, we're going to have better community and we're going to have more compassion for others and even for ourselves. Because a lot of times when we are triggered, it's because there's this lack of compassion for even yourself.
00:20:58:13 - 00:21:31:05
Unknown
You are coming from a very judgmental position. And I find as I work with people, often times the way we judge others is a really good sign of where we have hurt and self criticism and judgment. And so really honing in on our triggers, like you said, whether it's communicating with someone or even just how you experience your own children or things like that.
00:21:31:05 - 00:22:04:15
Unknown
This is such a great technique to use kind of in your work in these these difficult conversations within your family. And it doesn't always have to be with the hard stuff. It can just become a way that we communicate and love your curiosity, community and compassion. And I love that and I love it. That compassion. So many times in Scripture we see that before Jesus healed somebody, it says he had compassion and healed them.
00:22:04:15 - 00:23:05:14
Unknown
I love that so much because when we have compassion towards someone, even in a conversation, it can bring healing. Yeah. Oh, that's so true. I mean, I know in my own life having these conversations, these hard conversations around addiction, abortion, mental health, things that as I have been compassionate, curious and really engaging, instead of just sitting there from my position and judging, I have been amazed at how it has healed me because there were things that I was carrying with me that, you know, I had grown up in the church and so I had these really strong opinions, but I didn't actually even know where they were stemming from, like, was this.
00:23:05:14 - 00:23:33:01
Unknown
It was really just kind of passed down. And as I have been going into these situations and just asking the Holy Spirit of Jesus, like, Where are you in this situation? How do you feel about this person that I'm talking to and their journey? And it's always he feels love and he wants relationship and connection. And so as I have gone and moved more towards like, what would Jesus do?
00:23:33:07 - 00:24:03:23
Unknown
Being more like Jesus, you can't help but come to the conversation in a totally different way. Absolutely. I love that. So we talked about how to prepare to be there and how to go about as you engaged in the conversation tools that you can use throughout it. Because remember, this is a process, right? Because you'll be triggered potentially more than just one time within a conversation.
00:24:03:23 - 00:24:37:15
Unknown
So continually needing to go back, check yourself as you feel that rise up. What are you talked a little bit about and the benefits of engaging in this one being the healing right that happens in the the community, the person that you're engaging with or a larger community. What are other things that you've seen you talked about being able to have conversations with people that other people weren't able to have, right.
00:24:37:15 - 00:25:17:19
Unknown
Because of their their positioning. Are there any other things that really stand out as as benefits as you have been able to teach this to the those that you coach, mentor, mediate? I mean, I'm sure this comes in to everything heavily and into those aspects. Yeah, it does. You know, I think that one of the most beautiful things that I have seen is that is that it truly does build trust between people and and when there is trust between people, we may have viewed somebody as an enemy.
00:25:17:19 - 00:25:51:12
Unknown
When we sat down to have that conversation. But time and time again with this process, what I have seen is by the end of the conversation, you're now allies. So there is such an understanding and compassion that goes both ways that it's it's truly beautiful. One conversation that I had was with a girl, a black girl that was during COVID and a lot of a lot of hurt, a lot of pain, a lot of lot of stuff.
00:25:51:14 - 00:26:22:00
Unknown
And we had developed a relationship through through me listening and then her listening and understanding one another. And there were quite a few people that were part of her community that did not understand our relationship at all and didn't like me. And, and, and to have someone what she did was she just stood out for me and said, You don't know her.
00:26:22:00 - 00:26:56:08
Unknown
You don't understand. She is not like you think she is. I just wonder, like, what if we could say that about everybody? You know, all of the people that we have these assumptions about because of their race or religion or political stance or denomination or you name it, you know, just to be able to remember that and to and to say to ourselves, they're not who you think they are, you just have a perspective because of your stuff.
00:26:56:10 - 00:27:32:19
Unknown
Listen, learn who they are. So many allies are made that way. That is so powerful. And I couldn't agree more with you that how amazing would it be if we could just the people for their heart and for all the things that they've been through. But we can't do that if we can't even get to the table. And so to be trusted, we have to start changing the language that we use being sensitive.
00:27:32:19 - 00:28:28:20
Unknown
It's not about not having your position or standing true to what you feel your convictions are, but it's just about how you go about sharing those. And I think that you illustrated that. So well, and I hope that our listeners will take away, you know, when we have hard conversations or you hear things even on the podcast, because we have so many different perspectives that are shared, but that people will hear that the vulnerability and the willingness to to learn and that you're invited if you have a different opinion like or want to talk about a subject like reach out, you know, and, and do your part because we all have to participate for this
00:28:28:20 - 00:28:54:22
Unknown
to be a movement, for it to be effective. It starts in your own how you talk to yourself and then out of, you know, I believe you can't give to others which you can't give to yourself. So if you're always in a judgmental, critical, negative place in your own mind about who you are and who your identity, you've got to start there.
00:28:55:00 - 00:29:24:05
Unknown
Because then from where you stand in the position of how you treat yourself will be how you start to present yourself to others. And that's where it's most authentic, is if you are having that curiosity and that compassion to yourself, then it's going to be more natural when you sit down from someone else with someone else and offer them that same, same compassion.
00:29:24:07 - 00:30:14:08
Unknown
So then it starts next with your family and then your community, whether it's your work community, your church community, wherever it is, your volunteer things. And then as we continue to develop this skill and teach it to others, which is what I want to challenge those hearing this is start practicing this and then teaching it so that we can really start seeing a movement in how we are communicating with others in the like you said, in the hard conversations and the easy conversations, but that just people are walking away and feeling seen, heard and really known.
00:30:14:10 - 00:30:46:06
Unknown
Understood. Yeah. Yes, they need to get your book. So I'd love for you to tell us a little bit. I know you have an upcoming course or an event where you're going to help people work through the information and put this stuff right into practice. So if you can tell us a little bit about that, I'd love the audience to know will be linking the information in the show notes and sharing about it on social.
00:30:46:07 - 00:31:31:00
Unknown
But I would love for you to talk about your three calling it a workshop or it's called it's called the C5 Workshop because all these CS just started spilling out. It was it's the confident, compassionate, constructive conflict capabilities. So that's what that's what we're going to be talking about. Just getting more constructive strategies that are authentic on how to step into those conversations with confidence, but also with compassion and the end goal being, yes, we want it to be constructive, we want to move forward.
00:31:31:00 - 00:31:54:15
Unknown
We don't want to if we could let go of being right and being in control and of looking good, the world would be a much better place. Those are the three things that hang us up the most. And so, yes, letting go of that, it's practical strategies. That is one of the things that we really try to focus our content around with.
00:31:54:15 - 00:32:46:06
Unknown
It's your story to tell is not just empowering you, but equipping you to do it. Giving you practical strategies, little acronyms, ways to be engaged and conscious of what we're doing in the day to day. You know, so often we can want something to be different, but we don't have the strategies or the awareness. And so I am super excited for the audience to go check it out and to get your book, which is on Amazon Prime Barnes and Noble Blossom So Loud is not a language with Brenda Harkins as the author, and we will link to that, but you will not be disappointed.
00:32:46:06 - 00:33:20:07
Unknown
I have enjoyed reading it even as somebody who is in this space coaching people, I have an effective communication course, but you just lay it out in such a very practical way that kind of walks you step by step, just like we were talking about, just with a little bit more depth and context to it. And I really appreciate that you listened to the Holy Spirit in that moment that made you aware of the concept.
00:33:20:07 - 00:33:48:06
Unknown
Loud is not a language and that you partnered with him and he gave you these strategies. And my hope is that this is the start of a movement of people changing the way they communicate, and we get to see amazing things turn around because I think if we all could sit and listen, we really want the same things.
00:33:48:06 - 00:34:36:17
Unknown
We want better mental health, We want our kids to have a world they can thrive in and into the generations to come. And if we can really focus in on the things that we have in common, wow, it would be amazing what we could do. Yes, we're definitely more alike than we are. Different. Yeah. Yes. Such a great way to in this podcast is that, you know, challenging you to go out and find someone to have these conversations with so that you can learn, you know, so talking to some friends, that's just say, Hey, I'm, I'm starting to practice this, Would you let me practice this with you?
00:34:36:17 - 00:35:09:19
Unknown
Because it will take time to develop. And if you can do it with someone that knows you and is cares about you, they can give you really great feedback. So whether that's working with a coach like Brenda or myself or one of the other coaches in my collective, or just getting together with a friend and saying like, I want to work through this so that it becomes a conscious part of my day of the way I engage with people.
00:35:09:21 - 00:35:35:22
Unknown
You'll be amazed when it comes time to having a conversation with somebody you're so different with, just how different it goes. I couldn't agree more. Well, Brenda, do you have any last words or anything that we didn't cover that you really feel that you're called to share? Love to give you that opportunity before we close out today. Thank you.
00:35:35:22 - 00:36:08:07
Unknown
I just. It's been a joy being here. Thank you so much for having me on and allowing me to share that is not a language. I think the only thing that I would would say to people is that it's not as hard as it feels like it is, especially once you get in your mind of what could happen in the positive sense instead of, Oh no, what if the negative happens when we can keep in mind what could happen with that?
00:36:08:07 - 00:36:36:08
Unknown
Was stepping into these conversations in a compassionate way and keep that in focus in mind. It helps to bring the courage to say, okay, I'm going to give this a try. So my partner would be and I love that. It's always a good reminder that sometimes our our fear of things can get in the way. And by just recognizing one, it's you're not going to get it right.
00:36:36:08 - 00:37:02:09
Unknown
All the time, even when you're really trying to focus on this growth opportunity and giving yourself compassion and just taking it step by step and keeping in focus that in goal of of how it would look on the other side. If you could sit through the uncomfortableness, you know, our our mind in our body wants to protect us.
00:37:02:13 - 00:37:31:15
Unknown
And so sometimes it thinks it needs to protect us when it really doesn't. And we get all antsy and triggered and our nervous system starts going. But when we can take a pause, take some deep breath and really reorients us to the why behind doing what we're doing, then it makes it so much easier. So thank you for that reminder for myself, for our audience.
00:37:31:15 - 00:37:54:20
Unknown
It's so good and it's just been such a pleasure. I look forward to continuing to follow your journey and what will come next. I know that you have other books that are on your heart to share and we will be excited to share that with our community as it continues to evolve. So thank you for making time with us today.
00:37:56:10 - 00:38:12:09
Unknown
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00:38:12:17 - 00:38:41:22
Unknown
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